Dr Baldev Raj: Safety at Fast Breeder Reactor, Kalpakkam

Author at Fast Breeder Reactor at Kalpakkam with other scientists

Tsunami, Safety and the Fast Breeder Reactor at Kalpakkam

Interview with Dr Baldev Raj, director, IGCAR, Kalpakkam by Shivanand Kanavi, June 13, 2011


Firstly, when is the PFBR going to be commissioned?

We are planning to commission in June 2012 and we are very confident because the uncertainties have been removed. This being the first FBR in the world in the last 30 years, the international experience was also limited. So we had to do a lot of mock-up trials especially at the site.

For example, doing a 13-metre stainless steel weld with very small tolerance on eccentricity; lowering a roof dome of 230 tonnes with a circumference tolerance of 3 mm in 13 metres and so on.

It is a result of confluence of the best minds of industry and the Department of Atomic Energy. We can very confidently say that the technology has been mastered and is deliverable on site. R&D has been converted into technology. We have built a very competent young team.

By commissioning, you mean the actual loading of the fuel and achieving criticality?

Yes. After that it will take 6-9 months to be connected to the grid. We want to go step by step because it is a very large core with a large amount of plutonium and sodium. We are doing it for the first time.

How many tonnes?

In the actual vessel there will be 11 tonnes of sodium and two tonnes of plutonium. We can decide to go low power and then high power and so on.

How many tonnes of uranium will be there?

About eight.

This will be carbide or oxide fuel?

This will be oxide. Since it is a large investment we made a sub-assembly for validation with all the components coming from India and that sub-assembly of our design gave us 110,000 MW day per tonne.

We are yet to do the post-radiation examination but we have studied the power output and there was no breach of the cladding. No problem in handling. It was completed two months back.

After the 2004 tsunami there must have been some design changes and new protective measures put in for any such eventuality. Can you explain them?

We had a national committee of best experts. It examined the measures already taken. This exercise was done for the whole Kalpakkam campus and not just the fast breeder. It covered the residential campus, the MAPP reactors and IGCAR. We found that this place was well designed for the tsunami of the kind we had.

If you recall, we were back in operation within two weeks. However, the foundation of the fast breeder which was being built at that time had a deposit of the material that came with the tsunami.

So we studied what degradation the concrete had gone through due to the deposit, whether sodium or chlorine has gone in; what has happened to the long-term durability of the foundation etc.

We did modelling as well as actual testing. The foundation was okay but after discussion with the regulatory body and departmental discussions, we decided to put a barrier layer and a fresh foundation was laid on that and we carried on.

So that also elevated it further?

Yes that was another by-product, it got elevated by another two metres.

What about levees and barriers?

They were already there but we redesigned it. More important was the psyche of the people in the township because there were 30 deaths. Many people wanted to leave the organisation itself due to family pressure.

We have used boulders, mangroves and a unique barrier which will take a tsunami even greater than the last one. We also put in an alarm system based on seismic events around the world.

Anyway, our reactor people constantly observe all geological events so we have a warning system based on that irrespective of what the country decides to do. This warning is given to the villages and all our people.

We use hooters along the coast. We have also educated the people on disaster management. The biggest challenge for me was to keep the people together and give them confidence. Whatever happened was a natural calamity but we can be prepared for it in the future.

How would you describe the safety features built into the fast breeders?

The fast breeder satisfies all the current safety norms for nuclear reactors. There is a steady state of the nuclear reactor system. There can be transient states. These transient states should not damage the core leading to an accident.

So there are various mechanisms set up to see that the core is not damaged during any such event.

The reactor may be crammed so that power is reduced, controlling the temperature and the neutronics. In addition, in our system there is sodium, which catches fire if it comes into contact with air.

So one should prevent sodium leaks and have large number of sensors to check for leaks. Sodium in contact with moisture produces hydrogen so we need to detect even small amounts of hydrogen and so on.

In short, there are some generic safety measures that prevent the transient to affect the core and then there are specifics, like in our case sodium-related. There are design-based accidents and non-design-based accidents which one needs to take care of.

There are dumps to remove sodium?

They are there in critical systems. We do not like to totally shut down the reactor system, as sodium solidifies on cooling and then it becomes a problem to restart the system. So certain heaters are installed.

You have gravity-based systems?

The dumping systems are gravity-based systems, thus even if there is total power failure etc as it happened in Fukushima nuclear plant (in Japan after the recent tsunami), we will have safety.     

Do you classify it as third generation or better in the normal parlance, in terms of safety?

In fact fourth generation reactors that are being talked about are fast breeders or molten salt reactors. They are sustainable. In generation there is economy and safety which defines it. In our case, if you look at the whole fuel cycle, you have to do much less uranium mining.

Plus, the long-lived radioactive actinides in the waste are recycled and burnt so that repository load decreases.

In economy a fast reactor would be expensive compared to boiling water reactors but if you put up 20 of them then it would be comparable to water reactors. This can be built in five years. We have a complete road map and we are making the essential design changes to ensure that.

How do you compare the safety systems there with that of European Pressurised Reactor from France or VVER (water-cooled, water-moderated energy reactor) from Russia?

For the common man we have to ensure the same level of robustness as far as safety is concerned even if the underlying science is different. Every reactor system has a specific dynamics of steady state, transient and accidental.

Those scenarios are discussed between the designers and utility and then the regulatory boards.

Many times the regulators ask us to do more calculations and modelling or experiments. The EPR is an evolutionary reactor, where they have built 1,000 MW and now they are going for 1650 MW. Fast reactors have been built in France, Russia etc we have studied their experience and have also studied various scenarios, seismic qualifications, thin structures etc.

We have ensured that these reactors are comparable to water reactors. We have barriers and margins. There are multi barriers and there are margins at each barrier, then the damage at each barrier in the case of accident becomes less and less.

Even in the extreme case of core meltdown, where will it go, will it go critical, how much will leak out etc -- even those issues are studied.

In the case of EPR some anxiety is there because of the size of the Jaitapur project. For example, we are building 2x1000 MW in Koodankulam but nowhere in the world are there10,000 MW nuclear islands, so how do you assure the public that the environmental impact or sea temperature rise would be tolerable?

There are internationally accepted scientific environmental impact studies and modelling. That is not a problem, so is the sea temperature issue.

Radiation hazard-related issues are no longer being raised in nuclear projects. Nowadays it is all about land acquisition policy and the possible effect on marine life due to sea temperature rise.

Land acquisition is not a science issue but others can be satisfactorily answered even to the last citizen of the nation, because livelihood is involved and climate change issues are involved. Land acquisition is a political question, which has to be sorted out in a democratic way.

In FBR, is fuelling on a campaign mode or continuous?

It will be in a campaign mode unlike the PHWRs (pressurised heavy water reactors) where it is continuous. We have designed and validated our fuel elements for 100,000 MWday/tonne burn rate, but in the future we aim to design and validate for 200,000 MWday/tonne. Then we will change the cladding material, wrapper material and go for advanced materials.

How long will your initial load of 10 tonnes of fuel last?

Two years at 100,000 MW/day.

Just to compare, how much does the VVER in Koodankulam or EPR yield?

They yield 75,000 MWday/tonne. The advantage is the life of the fuel element is only two years. So I can put my new advanced fuel with higher burn rate right in this reactor after two years.

India is already at the cutting edge in research publication in fast breeders and thorium reactors. We look forward to the commissioning this landmark reactor. Wish you all the best.

Author's Note: Soon the fast breeder at Kalpakkam will go online, taking us to the very cutting edge. It is to be noticed that our scientists achieved all this on humble government salaries, whereas surely these brilliant engineers and scientists would have made millions of dollars in the greener pastures of Silicon Valley, as many others, whose success we toast, did!

India Japan Honeymoon

Another interesting edit in Business India

Business India, Editorial, Dec 9-22, 2013

Indo-Nippon Honeymoon

The high profile visit of Japanese royalty points to the new India-Japan tango in economic and strategic affairs

It is perhaps symbolic that Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko of Japan who visited India after 53 years were here earlier as Crown Prince and Princess of Japan on their honeymoon. Today the two countries too, are embarking on a strategic and economic honeymoon of their own.

The post war recovery of Japan and its second coming as an economic power did not see any significant growth in its economic relations with India. Japan was focused on North America and Europe and South East Asia and India had autarkic economic policies, while the Cold War kept Japan and India apart strategically.

 Despite liberalization Japan continued to studiously ignore the Indian economy till very recently. Suzuki’s success in the Indian auto market stood out as an exception while the rest of the Japanese companies fretted at the ‘difficulties in India’.

The situation started changing in the last decade due to political and economic developments. On the positive side the ‘Look East’ policy of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is finally yielding results. asean welcomed it first and now Japan too, is joining the party. The Indian Prime Minister has doggedly pursued Japan along with the landmark Indo-US nuclear deal and has been visiting Japan regularly. The spadework has started yielding results and gained momentum with the election of Shinzo Abe a self-declared Indophile, as the new pm.

India’s public declaration of nuclear weapons status with the five nuclear tests of 1998 did appear to cause a demonstrative but a temporary setback. However, both soon understood each other’s sensitivities, while publicly sticking to their stands regarding nuclear non-proliferation treaty (npt). Finally, Japan seems to be veering around to the reality of a nuclear powered India despite a strong public sentiment against nuclear weapons. Ironically it is China which seems to be making this turn around possible with its belligerent attitude towards territorial disputes with many of its Asian neighbours, including Japan.

If signals from Tokyo and New Delhi are to be believed a civil nuclear deal between the two countries seems nearer than ever. The fact that Toshiba and Hitachi control the nuclear reactor businesses of Westinghouse and General Electric is certainly a factor in this development.

In the strategic tango, Japan is the leading partner, while India has been coy. It is being cautious about Chinese sensitivities. However in the economic tango it has been the other way around. Both are protesting too much that their emerging partnership is not aimed at any “third country”, a euphemism for China, while Beijing appears unconvinced and jittery. Clearly in the Sino-Indian strategic games from the Karakoram to the South China Sea, Japan is entering as a third factor to Beijing’s discomfiture.

While intricate strategic power games have begun, what is heartening is that India-Japan trade is emerging from torpor and picking up momentum. Two way trade has trebled in the last six years to reach $18.5 billion in 2011-12. After six years of negotiation the two countries have concluded a Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement (cepa), which has come into force since August 2011, which is expected to give further fillip to rapid growth in two way trade.

Japanese investment in automotive and consumer electronics and white goods segment has also surged, with more investments announced by Panasonic, Hitachi, Sony, Honda, Toyota, Nissan et al. Numerous surveys among Japanese companies show that India is becoming their preferred investment destination over China and US, despite the fact that old complaints regarding rusty infrastructure, cumbersome bureaucracy; militant labour and difficulties in land acquisition remain as before.

While imports from Japan are rising, the exports from India are not keeping pace and constitute largely, non-manufactured commodities like marine products, minerals etc. Indian it services and pharmaceutical companies are yet to make a serious dent in the highly conservative and protected fortress Japan.

The efficient execution of Delhi Metro Rail with Japanese assistance has increased India’s credibility to receive more funds for its infrastructure projects like the Delhi-Mumbai Industrial Corridor.

Quite appropriately Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is the guest of honour next month during the Republic Day parade and we will perhaps see more concrete announcements by both sides on the economic front.

Though largely ceremonial the Japanese royalty’s India visit has great significance in the nuanced symbolism of Japanese culture. Considering that the Empress had cancelled a visit to a Book Fair in Delhi in 1998 due to Pokharan tests, one could say “Heika o youkoso” (Welcome your majesty) .

India's Mars Mission

An interesting comment on India's Mars Mission in Business India magazine editorial

Editorial: Business India, Nov 11-24, 2013

Mars Mission: ISRO Success on a Budget

We congratulate Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) on the successful launch of the rocket carrying India’s Mars probe, named Mangalyaan. Since then, Mangalyaan has undergone three orbit raising missions successfully. There are three more to go. It is expected to carry out several scientific experiments from its Martian orbit a year from now. The results of these modest but clever experiments are expected to enrich our knowledge of Mars.

There is still a long way to go before we declare success of the whole mission, but as the old adage goes, ‘well begun is half done’. It is all the more creditable considering that the last Mars mission sent by China and Russia two years ago failed in Earth’s orbit itself. All the players in space technology would be closely observing the developments in Mangalyaan. As the success rate of Mars missions is abysmally low and only 25 of the 42 have succeeded.

This being the 25^th ‘commercial’ flight of India’s work horse rocket PSLV, international interest is inspired by more than just scientific curiosity. Hence forth, many developing countries and even some of the more advanced economies, which do not have a space program of their own, will examine seriously the possibility of using ISRO’s commercial services in satellite design and launch. Already international media is hailing ISRO as a low cost space program and have pointed out that the Mangalyaan cost India a meagre $73 million, whereas comparable missions have cost others almost ten times. Indian space program is being characterized internationally as, “Frugal Engineering” and even “Gandhian Engineering”. 

Over the years, Business India has many times examined the potential of India’s space business and has advocated a more effective global marketing effort by ISRO.

It is but natural that in an argumentative society like ours, there are those who come up with absurdities like: “why not build more toilets” etc. Naturally some in the international media are lapping up the discordant sound bites. The all-round gains to Indian society and economy through ISRO’s R&D, to name a few are: enormously improved telecommunication system; entertainment and electronic media; search and rescue; weather prediction including disaster management like the recent super cyclone Phailin; better and safer transportation through satellite navigation; many sided benefits of earth remote sensing and resource management; military intelligence and so on. Thus this well worn out debate--‘space technology or butter’, is not worth entering into.

It is to be noted that China is offering the carrot of space services to countries in India’s neighbourhood, to increase its influence in the region, while India has not. It is time ISRO offered turn-key services for communication and remote sensing satellite design and launch facilities in the neighbourhood with even some free piggy backing arrangements. There should be more coordination between the PMO, MEA and ISRO in this regard.

While we applaud ISRO’s success in the last five decades heartily, we should not ignore the challenges. Technologically the most important one is the development of Cryogenic Engine technology. India has been at it for exactly two decades without success. That will be the key to create launch capabilities for heavier satellites, communication satellites as well as manned space missions. Clearly China is way ahead of us in this respect. Second of all, even if Mangalyaan is eventually a total success, we do not yet see a clear statement of intent or vision regarding the exploration of Moon or Mars or other parts of solar system by ISRO. It all seems piece-meal and ad-hoc, announced by successive Prime Ministers on August 15, from the ramparts of the Red Fort.

Though one should abhor a race with China for issues of prestige, one should clearly understand the commercial and military-strategic advantage that any nation with space technology holds vis-a-vis others.

For now, whether Mangalyaan discovers little green men or just some methane in the Martian atmosphere, let us applaud the thousands of engineers and scientists of ISRO and wish them success. We owe them at least as much, considering that they have toiled at government salaries and created strategic technologies, whereas many of them could have surely earned millions in the Silicon Valley.

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