Interview: D P Biradar on Agricultural R&D

http://www.rediff.com/news/interview/this-is-indias-biggest-challenge-did-you-know-about-it/20150421.htm

This is India's biggest challenge. Did you know about it?

Last updated on: April 21, 2015 09:37 IST

'Any new technology, either before or soon after its release, will face severe criticism by one or the other segment of society. It is only after seeing the benefits of new technology for themselves that our farmers accept it.'

'The arable land in India is not increasing and currently hovers at around 140, 145 million hectares.'

'Today, Indian agriculture has to work towards achieving nutritional security.'

Scenes from Krishi Mela UAS Dharwad Sep 2014

The College of Agricultural Sciences was founded nearly 70 years ago by renowned scientist S W Menshinkai in the appropriately named Yettinagudda (Hill of Bullocks) on the outskirts of Karnataka's cultural capital, Dharwad.

It took another four decades for it to become a full fledged university -- UAS Dharwad.

It has, to date, released over 200 new varieties of crops.

Its annual farmers's exhibition, the Krishi Mela, attracts over a million progressive farmers and is the largest of its kind in India.

Recognised as a leading institutions in India that has consistently engaged in high quality research, teaching and extension among farmers, the university today faces new challenges.

Plant biotechnologist Dr D P Biradar is the new vice-chancellor at the university. His dream is to take forward the path-breaking work done by the university so far and make it a globally known institution that serves the needs of local farmers.

He discussed the challenges facing agricultural research with Shivanand Kanavi.

What are the current challenges in agricultural research and education in India?

Post Independence, Indian agriculture -- which was traditional and focused on subsistence -- was unable to meet the food demand of a fast growing population. This forced India to go with a begging bowl to the world for food aid.

During the Green Revolution that was started in the sixties and seventies, the priority of the government was to produce more food. Thus, semi-dwarf wheat varieties from Mexico and chemical fertilisers were introduced in the Indo-Gangetic plains and, later, elsewhere.

The Green Revolution was a success story and helped us achieve national food security.

Today, Indian agriculture has to work towards achieving nutritional security.

I believe technological intervention is the only option to achieve both national food and nutritional security.

The arable land in India is not increasing and is currently hovering at around 140, 145 million hectares.

Therefore, it is not just important to grow only high yielding crop cultivars (a plant created and maintained through cultivation); it should be of better quality as well.

Any new technology, either before or soon after its release, will face severe criticism by one or the other segment of society. It is only after seeing the benefits of new technology for themselves that our farmers accept it. A good example of this is Bt cotton.

How were you able to convince farmers about Bt cotton?

When genetically modified crops were introduced in India, there was -- like elsewhere around the world -- a lot of hue and cry.

I remember similar, unscientific objections to hybrid crops released in the seventies.

Many environmental groups and farmers associations strongly opposed the introduction of any kind of GM crop, including Bt cotton. Some farmers' associations went around burning Bt cotton trial fields across Karnataka and elsewhere in India.

Even though cotton is mainly grown for fibre and not consumed directly by human beings, cotton seed cake is fed to animals. There were questions as to whether Bt cotton seed was good enough for cattle and bird feed.

Today, after of constant testing and evaluation on farmers's fields, Bt cotton is accepted by cotton growing farmers. Over 90 per cent of the cotton acreage in India is Bt cotton and farmers, both under rain-fed and irrigated conditions, have seen higher yields.

What are the advantages of Bt technology in cotton?

The yields are higher. It has greatly reduced the use of pesticides, especially for the pest known as bollworm.

Earlier, farmers needed to spray pesticides at least 18, 20 times to prevent a bollworm attack. With Bt, you need hardly one or two.

Even for scientists, it is amazing to see that when you keep a few Bt Cotton leaves among a bunch of bollworms in a lab, the worms start dying in front of your eyes after eating the leaves.

It has helped reduce environmental pollution by lowering the usage of pesticide against bollworms.

What are your university's plans regarding cotton?

UASD's work in cotton is well known the world over. We have been working on Bt technology for quite some time and I am confident that, when Bt cotton seeds are introduced in the market by public sector research (companies), we will be in the front ranks.

We have even developed, through GM technology, cotton varieties in blue, brown and peach.

Similar efforts should be made to make sure that safe GM brinjal and other food crops are developed and popularised.

We are now concentrating on Bt cotton hybrids. We are also developing Bt cotton varieties suited to high density cultivation.

Unlike Bt hybrids, when Bt varieties are released, the seeds can be reused by farmers. They need not go back to the seed marketing firms. Thus, we help farmers in the long-run.

Can Bt cotton varieties compete with Bt cotton hybrids?

Yes, of course. Our varieties are well adapted to local environments, including limited water environments and both rain fed and dry land. Therefore, they would definitely perform well.

Karnataka is supposed to be the second-most water stressed state after Rajasthan. What are you doing about that?

Dryland is another major area where new technological interventions are required to adapt to abiotic stress (hot and dry climates).

This includes drought tolerant crop cultivars and the introduction of drought resistant genes, rain-water harvesting, soil conservation and mechanisation that is suited to the small holdings of Indian farmers.

We are weak in agricultural engineering, so I see a greater opportunity to work with engineering colleges.

The collaboration between plant biologists and engineers should address the problems related to labour scarcity and the mechanised cultivation and harvesting of agricultural crops.

What about intellectual property rights for the research and development done by your university?

UAS Dharwad has released over the years over 200 varieties, but we neglected registering many of them. Now, we are registering all the varieties released by us.

We will seek the law university's help in strengthening our IPR cell.

How are you developing international collaborations?

We have now revamped our university Web site (external link), highlighting our research accomplishments and scientific publications to increase its global visibility and explore scientific collaborations with outside institutions.

UAS Dharwad has quite a few Memorandums of Understanding with outside institutions like Texas A&M and Cornell University in the US; McGill and University of Manitoba in Canada and many others, including some African institutions.

We have established an International Centre for Agricultural Development here in Dharwad and have identified six themes for research with global partners.

We want to develop collaborations with Asian and African partners. For example, we now have MoUs with China and LUANAR, Malawi. In fact, we have been attracting students from Africa and the Middle East regularly.

A minute fraction of agriculture graduates go back to farming. What measures are being taken by UASD so that more graduates go back to the farm and use their knowledge?

This is an issue

( Plant biotechnologist and vice-chancellor, UASD, Dr D P Biradar).

The government recently started a two-year diploma course in agriculture, which is picking up well. However, the number of graduates returning back to the farm is still very small. New, out-of-the-box ideas are required to change this situation.

We are encouraging our graduates to work closely with their farming families.

I think both agriculture graduates and diploma holders need to be provided with credit by the banks so that they are encouraged to take up farming or agriculture-related enterprise.

I am floating this idea at the government level; hopefully, they will consider it. We have also started an incubator here develop agri-business ideas from our alumni and others into enterprises.

We are now importing 13 million tons of edible oil. What is UASD's contribution in the oilseed mission?

Our university has done good work on oilseed crops -- peanut, sunflower and soybean.

We have new and large scale oilseed seed production activities to popularise the cultivation of oilseed crops. This is being done in peanut (higher yield), soybean (rust resistant) and safflower (mechanisation).

Further, our seed unit is doing great job in supplying quality seeds to the farmers of Karnataka and across India.

(Shivanand Kanavi is a theoretical physicist, senior journalist, author and former vice-president, TCS.)

Prof Rajshekhar Bhoosnurmath-A tribute

Prajavani, April 13, 2015

Prof Rajshekhar Bhoosnurmath, a wonderful Physics teacher and a pioneer in Sci-Fi writing in Kannada passed away on April 12, 2015 in Dharwad. Here is my tribute to him published in Prajavani.

http://t.co/wv3YC0joBY

NIAS Interview Dr Baldev Raj, Prajavani

Prajavani, April 12, 2015
Interview with Dr Baldev Raj, Director, National Institute of Advanced Studies (NIAS), Bengaluru

‘ನಿಯಾಸ್ ನಂಥ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆಗಳಿಗೆ ಕಾರ್ಪೊರೇಟ್‌ ಅನುದಾನ ಹೊಸ ಆಶಾಕಿರಣ’

Dr Baldev Raj, Director, NIAS

ಬೆಂಗಳೂರಿನ ಮಲ್ಲೇಶ್ವರದಲ್ಲಿ ಭಾರತೀಯ ವಿಜ್ಞಾನ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆಗೆ (ಐಐಎಸ್‌ಸಿ) ಹೊಂದಿಕೊಂಡಿರುವ , ಹಸಿರು ಭರಿತ ಕ್ಯಾಂಪಸ್‌ನಲ್ಲಿ 25 ವರ್ಷಗಳ ಹಿಂದೆ ‘ರಾಷ್ಟ್ರೀಯ ಉನ್ನತ ಅಧ್ಯಯನ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆ’ (ನಿಯಾಸ್ -ಎನ್‌ಐಎಎಸ್‌ )ಸ್ಥಾಪಿಸಿದವರು ಉದ್ಯಮಿ ಜೆಆರ್‌ಡಿ ಟಾಟಾ ಮತ್ತು ಪರಮಾಣು ವಿಜ್ಞಾನಿ ರಾಜಾರಾಮಣ್ಣ. ಈ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆ ಈ ವರೆಗೆ ಹೊಂದಿರುವ ವರ್ಚಸ್ವ ಮತ್ತು ಮುನ್ನೋಟಗಳ ಕುರಿತು ಅದರ ನಿರ್ದೇಶಕ ಬಲದೇವ ರಾಜ್ ಅವರ ಜೊತೆ ಶಿವಾನಂದ ಕಣವಿ ನಡೆಸಿದ ಮಾತುಕತೆಯ ಸಂಕ್ಷಿಪ್ತ ಟಿಪ್ಪಣಿಗಳು ಕೆಳಗಿವೆ

ಬಲದೇವ ರಾಜ್ ಅವರು ಪ್ರಸಿದ್ಧ ಲೋಹ ಶಾಸ್ತ್ರಜ್ಞ. ಪರಮಾಣು ಶಕ್ತಿ ಕ್ಷೇತ್ರದಲ್ಲಿ ಇವರು ನಾಲ್ಕು ದಶಕಗಳ ಕಾಲ ಮಹತ್ವದ ಕೆಲಸ ಮಾಡಿ ಆರು ತಿಂಗಳ ಹಿಂದೆ ನಿಯಾಸ್ ನಿರ್ದೇಶಕರಾಗಿ ಅಧಿಕಾರ ಸ್ವೀಕರಿಸಿದ್ದಾರೆ. ಈ ಹಿಂದೆ ರಾಜಾ ರಾಮಣ್ಣ, ರೊದ್ದಂ ನರಸಿಂಹ, ಕಸ್ತೂರಿ ರಂಗನ್ ಮತ್ತು ವಿ.ಎಸ್‌. ರಾಮಮೂರ್ತಿ ಅವರಂಥ ಘಟಾನುಘಟಿಗಳನ್ನು ನಿರ್ದೇಶಕರನ್ನಾಗಿ ಹೊಂದಿದ ಹಿರಿಮೆ ಈ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆಗಿದೆ.

* ನಿಯಾಸ್ ಗೆ  25 ವರ್ಷ ತುಂಬಿದೆ. ಈ ಸಂದರ್ಭದಲ್ಲಿ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆಯ ಪಾತ್ರ ಮತ್ತು ಭವಿಷ್ಯದ ಬಗ್ಗೆ ನಿಮ್ಮ ಮಾತು ಏನು?

ಬಲದೇವ ರಾಜ್: ಸಮಷ್ಟಿಯ ದೃಷ್ಟಿಕೋನ ಹೊಂದಿರುವ ಬೌದ್ಧಿಕ ನಾಯಕರು ಇಲ್ಲಿ ರೂಪುಗೊಳ್ಳಬೇಕು ಎಂಬುದು ಜೆಆರ್‌ಡಿ ಟಾಟಾ ಮತ್ತು ರಾಜಾ ರಾಮಣ್ಣ ಅವರ ಉದ್ದೇಶವಾಗಿತ್ತು. ಎಲ್ಲ ಕ್ಷೇತ್ರಗಳಲ್ಲೂ ಇಂಥ ನಾಯಕರನ್ನು ರೂಪಿಸುವ ಆಸೆ ಅವರದಾಗಿತ್ತು. ದೇಶದ ಬೇರೆ ಬೇರೆ ರಂಗಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ಮುಂಚೂಣಿ ಸ್ಥಾನ ವಹಿಸಿಕೊಳ್ಳುವ ಗಣ್ಯರು, ಇಲ್ಲಿಗೆ ಬಂದು, ಇಲ್ಲಿರುವ ಅನ್ಯ ಕ್ಷೇತ್ರಗಳ ಮೇಧಾವಿಗಳ ಜೊತೆ ಸಮಯ ಕಳೆಯಬೇಕು ಎಂಬ ಅಭಿಲಾಷೆ ಅವರದಾಗಿತ್ತು. ಆಗ ನಡೆಯುವ ಮಾತುಕತೆಯೇ ಅವರ ವೈಚಾರಿಕತೆಯ ಮೇಲೆ ಸಾಕಷ್ಟು ಪ್ರಭಾವ ಬೀರುತ್ತದೆ ಎಂದು ಟಾಟಾ ಮತ್ತು ರಾಜಾ ರಾಮಣ್ಣ ನಂಬಿದ್ದರು.
ಈ ನಿಟ್ಟಿನಲ್ಲಿ ಸಾಕಷ್ಟು ಸಾಧನೆಯನ್ನು ನಾವು ಮಾಡಿದ್ದೇವೆ ಎಂಬುದು ನನ್ನ ಅನಿಸಿಕೆ. ಸರ್ಕಾರ ಮತ್ತು ಉದ್ಯಮ ರಂಗದ ನಾಯಕರಿಗಾಗಿ ಹದಿನೈದರಿಂದ ಇಪ್ಪತ್ತು ಇಂಥ ಕಾರ್ಯಕ್ರಮಗಳನ್ನು ಪ್ರತಿ ವರ್ಷ ಆಯೋಜಿಸುತ್ತೇವೆ. ನಂತರ ಅವರು ತಾವು ಬಹಳಷ್ಟು ಬದಲಾಗಿರುವುದಾಗಿ ಹೇಳಿಕೊಂಡಿದ್ದಾರೆ.
ನಮ್ಮ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆ ಬೀರಿದ ಪ್ರಭಾವ ದೊಡ್ಡದು. ಆದರೆ, ನಮಗೆ ಬರುವ ಹಣಕಾಸಿನ ಅನುದಾನ ಇಂದಿನ ದಿನಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ತೀರಾ ಅಲ್ಪ. ನಾನು ಇಲ್ಲಿಗೆ ಬಂದ ನಂತರ ನಮ್ಮ ಸಹವರ್ತಿಗಳು, ಉಪನ್ಯಾಸಕ ಸಿಬ್ಬಂದಿ, ಪ್ರೊಫೆಸರ್‌ಗಳು, ಪಿಎಚ್‌.ಡಿ. ವಿದ್ಯಾರ್ಥಿಗಳ ಜೊತೆ ವಿಸ್ತಾರವಾಗಿ ಮಾತನಾಡಿದ್ದೇನೆ. ಸಂಸ್ಥೆ ಪ್ರಭಾವಿ ಆಗಬೇಕಾದರೆ ಜನ ಸಂಪನ್ಮೂಲವಲ್ಲದೆ, ಹಣ ಕೂಡ ಅಗತ್ಯ. ಟಾಟಾ ಟ್ರಸ್ಟ್‌ ನಮಗೆ ಬೆಂಬಲ ನೀಡುತ್ತಿವೆ. ಟಾಟಾ ಟ್ರಸ್ಟ್‌ನವರು ಬಹಳ ಉದಾರಿಗಳು. ದೇಶದ ಬಗ್ಗೆ ಅಪಾರ ಬದ್ಧತೆ ಹೊಂದಿರುವವರು. ನಿಜ ಹೇಳಬೇಕೆಂದರೆ, ನಾವು ಅಸ್ತಿತ್ವದಲ್ಲಿರುವುದೇ ಟಾಟಾ ಟ್ರಸ್ಟ್‌ಗಳ ಕಾರಣದಿಂದ. ಮುಂದಿನ ದಿನಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ನಾವು ವರ್ಷಕ್ಕೆ ₨ 10 ಕೋಟಿಯಿಂದ ₨ 15 ಕೋಟಿವರೆಗೆ ಬಡ್ಡಿ ಬರುವಂಥ ದತ್ತಿ ಹಣವನ್ನು ಒಗ್ಗೂಡಿಸಿಕೊಳ್ಳಬೇಕು. ಇಂಥ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆಗಳ ವಾರ್ಷಿಕ ಖರ್ಚಿಗೆ ಇದು ದೊಡ್ಡದೇನೂ ಅಲ್ಲ.

* ದತ್ತಿ ಹಣ ಒಗ್ಗೂಡಿಸಲು ನೀವು ಕಾರ್ಪೊರೇಟ್‌ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆಗಳು, ಸರ್ಕಾರ ಮತ್ತು ಅನಿವಾಸಿ ಭಾರತೀಯರ ಮೊರೆ ಹೋಗುವಿರಾ?

ಕಾರ್ಪೊರೇಟ್‌ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆಗಳ ಸಾಮಾಜಿಕ ಜವಾಬ್ದಾರಿಗೆ ಸಂಬಂಧಿಸಿದ ವಿಷಯವನ್ನು ಕಂಪೆನಿ ಕಾಯ್ದೆಗೆ ಇತ್ತೀಚೆಗೆ ಸೇರಿಸಿರುವ ಕಾರಣ, ಸಾಮಾಜಿಕವಾಗಿ ಬಹುದೊಡ್ಡ ಪರಿಣಾಮ ಬೀರುವ ನಮ್ಮಂಥ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆಗಳು ಕಾರ್ಪೊರೇಟ್‌ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆಗಳಿಂದ ದೊಡ್ಡ ಪ್ರಮಾಣದಲ್ಲಿ ಅನುದಾನ ನಿರೀಕ್ಷಿಸಬಹುದು. ನಾನು ಕೆಲವು ಕಾರ್ಪೊರೇಟ್‌ ಕಂಪೆನಿಗಳ ಜೊತೆ ಈಗಾಗಲೇ ಮಾತುಕತೆ ಆರಂಭಿಸಿದ್ದೇನೆ.

* ನಿಯಾಸ್ ನ ಸಿಬ್ಬಂದಿ ಯಾವ ಕ್ಷೇತ್ರಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ಸಂಶೋಧನೆ ಕೈಗೊಂಡಿದ್ದಾರೆ?

ಸಂಸ್ಕೃತಿ, ಪರಂಪರೆಗೆ ಸಂಬಂಧಿಸಿದ ಕ್ಷೇತ್ರಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ವಿದ್ವಾಂಸರು, ತಜ್ಞರೂ ಆದವರು ನಮ್ಮಲ್ಲಿದ್ದಾರೆ. ಅಸಾಂಪ್ರದಾಯಿಕ ಪದ್ಧತಿಗಳ ಮೂಲಕ ಶಿಕ್ಷಣ ನೀಡುವ ಮಾರ್ಗಗಳ ಶೋಧದಲ್ಲಿರುವ ಮಕ್ಕಳ ಮನಶಾಸ್ತ್ರಜ್ಞರು ನಮ್ಮಲ್ಲಿದ್ದಾರೆ. ಬಾಹ್ಯಾಕಾಶ, ರಕ್ಷಣೆ, ಅಣುಶಕ್ತಿ, ಊರ್ಜಾ, ಪರಿಸರ ಕುರಿತು ಸಂಶೋಧನೆ ನಡೆಸುತ್ತಿರುವ ಗುಂಪುಗಳಿವೆ. ಕೃಷಿ ಕ್ಷೇತ್ರದ ಕಡೆಗೂ ನಮ್ಮ ಕೆಲಸವನ್ನು ವಿಸ್ತರಿಸಬೇಕು ಎನ್ನುವುದು ನನ್ನ ಇಚ್ಛೆ. ಅದರಲ್ಲೂ ವಿಶೇಷವಾಗಿ, ಸುಸ್ಥಿರ ಕೃಷಿ ಬಗ್ಗೆ ನಾವು ಹೆಚ್ಚು ಕೆಲಸ ಮಾಡಬೇಕು. ನಾವು ಈಗ ಭಾರತದಲ್ಲಿ ಕೈಗಾರಿಕಾ ವಲಯದ ಬಗ್ಗೆ ಹೆಚ್ಚಿನ ಗಮನ ನೀಡುತ್ತಿದ್ದೇವೆ. ಆದರೆ ಕೃಷಿ ಕ್ಷೇತ್ರದ ಭವಿಷ್ಯ ಕುರಿತು ಸಾಕಷ್ಟು ಗಮನಹರಿಸುತ್ತಿಲ್ಲ.
ಈ ಎಲ್ಲ ಕ್ಷೇತ್ರಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ಕೆಲವು ಪ್ರೊಫೆಸರ್‌ಗಳು, ಯುವ ಸಹಾಯಕರು, ಪಿಎಚ್‌.ಡಿ ಪಡೆದವರು, ಪಿಎಚ್‌.ಡಿ ವಿದ್ಯಾರ್ಥಿಗಳು ಕ್ಷೇತ್ರ ಸಂಶೋಧನೆ ಕೈಗೊಳ್ಳುವಂತೆ ಮಾಡಬೇಕು ಎಂಬುದು ನನ್ನ ಯೋಜನೆ. ಸತ್ಯೇನ್ ಬೋಸ್‌, ಎಂ.ಎನ್. ಸಹಾ ಅಥವಾ ಸರ್ ಸಿ.ವಿ. ರಾಮನ್ ಕಾಲದ ಜಗತ್ತು ಇದಲ್ಲ. ನಾವು ಈ ಕಾಲದಲ್ಲಿ ವಾಸ್ತವವಾದಿ ಆಗಿರಬೇಕು. ನಮ್ಮ ಯುವಕರಿಗೆ ತುಸು ಮಟ್ಟಿಗಾದರೂ ಹಣ ಬೇಕು. ಆಗ ಮಾತ್ರ ನಾವು ಈಗಿನದಕ್ಕಿಂತ ಹೆಚ್ಚು ಪರಿಣಾಮಕಾರಿಯಾದ, ಚೇತೋಹಾರಿಯಾದ ಕೆಲಸಗಳನ್ನು ಮಾಡಬಹುದು.

* ನೀತಿ ಆಯೋಗಕ್ಕೆ ಸಲಹೆ ನೀಡುವಂತಿದ್ದರೆ ನೀವು ಯಾವ ವಿಚಾರಗಳಿಗೆ ಆದ್ಯತೆ ನೀಡುತ್ತೀರಿ?

ಎರಡು ಹೊಸ ವಿಚಾರಗಳು ನನ್ನ ಅಜೆಂಡಾದಲ್ಲಿ ಇವೆ. ಮೊದಲನೆಯದು ಅಸಮಾನತೆಗಳ ಅಧ್ಯಯನ. ಅಸಮಾನತೆ ಕುರಿತು ಸತ್ಯವನ್ನು ಆಧರಿಸಿದ, ಸಮಗ್ರ ದೃಷ್ಟಿಕೋನದ ಸಲಹೆ ಸರ್ಕಾರಕ್ಕೆ ದೊರೆತಿಲ್ಲ. ಅಸಮಾನತೆಗಳ ಬಗ್ಗೆ ವಿಶ್ಲೇಷಣೆ ಮಾಡುವುದು ಸುಲಭವಲ್ಲ. ಎಲ್ಲರನ್ನೂ ಒಳಗೊಳ್ಳುವ ಅಭಿವೃದ್ಧಿ ಬೇಕಿದ್ದರೆ, ಸಮಗ್ರ ಸ್ವರೂಪದ ಬೆಳವಣಿಗೆ ಸಾಧಿಸಬೇಕಿದ್ದರೆ ಈ ಪ್ರಕ್ರಿಯೆಗಳಿಂದ ಹೊರಗುಳಿದಿರುವ ಸಮುದಾಯಗಳು ಯಾವವು ಎಂಬುದು ತಿಳಿದಿರಬೇಕು. ಮತ್ತು ಅವು ಎಷ್ಟರಮಟ್ಟಿಗೆ ಹೊರಗುಳಿದಿವೆ ಎಂಬುದೂ ಗೊತ್ತಾಗಬೇಕು.
ಅದೇ ರೀತಿ ನಮ್ಮ ಸಾಂಸ್ಕೃತಿಕ ಪರಂಪರೆಗೆ ಸಂಬಂಧಿಸಿದಂತೆ ಕೆಲವು ಗುರಿಗಳ ಬಗ್ಗೆ ನಾವು ಮಾತನಾಡುತ್ತೇವೆ. ಆದರೆ ನಮ್ಮ ಪರಂಪರೆಯ ಬಗ್ಗೆ ಸಮಗ್ರ ಚಿತ್ರಣ ಏನು ಎಂಬುದನ್ನು ಸರ್ಕಾರದಲ್ಲಿ ಹೇಳುವ ವ್ಯಕ್ತಿ ಇದ್ದಾರೆ ಎಂದು ನನಗನಿಸುವುದಿಲ್ಲ. ನಮ್ಮ ಸುಮಾರು 100 ಸಾಂಸ್ಕೃತಿಕ ಮೈಲುಗಲ್ಲುಗಳ ವೈಶಿಷ್ಟ್ಯಗಳನ್ನು ಹೇಳುವ ವಿಚಾರದಲ್ಲಿ ಯೂರೋಪ್‌ನ ಮಟ್ಟವನ್ನು ನಾವು ಇನ್ನು ಹತ್ತು ವರ್ಷಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ತಲುಪಬಲ್ಲೆವಾ? ಇಂಥ ಕೆಲಸ ಮಾಡಲು ಬೇಕಿರುವ ವ್ಯಕ್ತಿಗಳು ನಿಯಾಸ್ ನಲ್ಲಿ ಇದ್ದಾರೆ.
ಉದಾಹರಣೆಗೆ ಸದ್ಧ್ಯ ಹಂಪಿಯನ್ನು ಡಿಜಿಟಲ್ ಮಾಧ್ಯಮದಲ್ಲಿ ಸೆರೆ ಹಿಡಿಯುವ ಕೆಲಸವನ್ನು ನಾವು ಕೈಗೆತ್ತಿಕೊಂಡಿದ್ದೇವೆ. ಇದಕ್ಕೆ ನಾವು ಐಐಟಿಗಳಿಂದ, ಸ್ವಯಂಸೇವಾ ಸಂಸ್ಥೆಗಳಿಂದ, ಸಾಂಸ್ಕೃತಿಕ ಸಂಘಟನೆಗಳಿಂದ ಅರ್ಹರನ್ನು ಕರೆಸಿಕೊಂಡಿದ್ದೇವೆ. ಈ ದೇಶದ ಸಾಂಸ್ಕೃತಿಕ ಆಯಾಮಗಳ ಅಧ್ಯಯನದಲ್ಲಿ ಇದೇ ಮೊದಲ ಬಾರಿಗೆ ಗಣ್ಯ ಮತ್ತು ಚುರುಕಿನ ವ್ಯಕ್ತಿಗಳನ್ನು ನಾವು ಒಗ್ಗೂಡಿಸಿದ್ದೇವೆ. ಈ ಕಾರ್ಯ ಒಂದು ವರ್ಷದಲ್ಲಿ ಪೂರ್ಣಗೊಳ್ಳುತ್ತದೆ ಎಂಬ ಭರವಸೆ ಇದೆ. ಈ ಕೆಲಸವನ್ನು ನಾವು ವಿಜ್ಞಾನ ಮತ್ತು ತಂತ್ರಜ್ಞಾನ ಇಲಾಖೆ ಹಾಗೂ ಸಂಸ್ಕೃತಿ ಇಲಾಖೆಯ ಜೊತೆಗೂಡಿ ಮಾಡುತ್ತಿದ್ದೇವೆ.
ಅದೇ ರೀತಿ ಮನುಷ್ಯ ಮತ್ತು ವನ್ಯಜೀವಿಗಳ ನಡುವಿನ ಸಂಘರ್ಷ ಕುರಿತು ಒಂದು ಗುಂಪು ಅಧ್ಯಯನ ನಡೆಸುತ್ತಿದೆ. ನಮ್ಮ ಸಂಶೋಧನೆಗಳು ಸಮಾನ ಮನಸ್ಕರ ಗಮನ ಸೆಳೆದಿದೆ. ಈ ವಿಷಯದ ಬಗ್ಗೆಯೂ ನಾವು ನೀತಿ ಆಯೋಗಕ್ಕೆ ಧೋರಣಾತ್ಮಕ ಸಲಹೆ ಕೊಡ ಬಲ್ಲೆವು.

* ಹರಪ್ಪ ನಾಗರೀಕತೆಯ ಅವಶೇಷಗಳ ಮೂಲಕ ಸಾಧ್ಯವಾಗುವ ಪ್ರವಾಸೋದ್ಯಮ ಮತ್ತು ಶಿಕ್ಷಣವನ್ನು ನಾವು ನಿರ್ಲಕ್ಷಿಸಿದ್ದೇವೆ. ಪಾಕಿಸ್ತಾನದಲ್ಲಿರುವ ತಕ್ಷಶಿಲೆಗೆ ಭೇಟಿ ನೀಡಿದವರು, ಅದನ್ನು ಸಂರಕ್ಷಿಸಿದ ಮಾದರಿಯನ್ನು ಬಹುವಾಗಿ ಮೆಚ್ಚಿಕೊಳ್ಳುತ್ತಿದ್ದಾರೆ.

ನಿಜ, ನಾವು ಗಾಂಧಿನಗರದ ಐಐಟಿಯವರ ಜೊತೆಗೂಡಿ ಕಛ್ ನ ಢೋಲಾವೀರಾ ದಲ್ಲಿರುವ ಅವಶೇಷಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ಈ ದಿಶೆಯಲ್ಲಿ ಕೆಲಸ ಮಾಡುತ್ತಿದ್ದೇವೆ. ಆಧುನಿಕ ಉಪಗ್ರಹ ತಂತ್ರಜ್ಞಾನ ಮತ್ತು ಡಿಜಿಟಲ್ ತಂತ್ರಜ್ಞಾನವನ್ನು ಅಲ್ಲಿ ಬಳಸಿಕೊಂಡಿದ್ದೇವೆ.

* ಸರ್ಕಾರ, ಕಾರ್ಪೊರೇಟ್‌ ಕಂಪೆನಿಗಳು ಮತ್ತು ಜನಸಾಮಾನ್ಯರ ದೃಷ್ಟಿಯಲ್ಲಿ ನಿಯಾಸ್ ನ ಸ್ಥಾನ ಇನ್ನಷ್ಟು ಎತ್ತರಕ್ಕೆ ಏರಬೇಕಿದೆ. ಅಲ್ಲವೇ?

ದೇಶದ ಇಂದಿನ ಸ್ಥಿತಿಯಲ್ಲಿ ಅವಕಾಶದ ಕಿಟಕಿಗಳು ಇನ್ನೂ ತೆರೆದಿವೆ. ನಮ್ಮಧೋರಣೆಗಳ ಆಯ್ಕೆಗಳು ಸರಿಯಾಗಿದ್ದರೆ, ದೇಶ ಬೆಳೆಯುತ್ತದೆ. ಅದನ್ನು ಮಾಡದಿದ್ದರೆ ನಮ್ಮದು ಈಗಿರುವುದಕ್ಕಿಂತ ಹೆಚ್ಚು ಗೊಂದಲಗಳ ದೇಶವಾಗುತ್ತದೆ.

(ಶಿವಾನಂದ ಕಣವಿ ಭೌತವಿಜ್ಞಾನಿ, ಹಿರಿಯ ಪತ್ರಕರ್ತ, ಟಿಸಿಎಸ್‌ನ ಮಾಜಿ ಉಪಾಧ್ಯಕ್ಷ)

Conversation: Bharat Ratna Prof CNR Rao

Prof CNR Rao: A Conversation

Chintamani Nagesa Ramachandra Rao is among the most prolific scientists in the world with over 1700 research publications and having guided over 150 PhDs. He has been a pioneer in several areas of material science and is now doing cutting edge work and setting new trends in nanoscience. After having done outstanding work in spectroscopy, High Temperature Super Conductivity, Colossal magneto-resistance, graphenes, inorganic nano tubes and so on. The octogenarian continues to enthusiastically sally forth in photosynthesis and producing Hydrogen through novel routes. He has been the chairman of Scientific Advisory Committee to Prime Ministers Rajiv Gandhi and later Dr Manmohan Singh and been responsible for a number of science initiatives of those regimes. Shivanand Kanavi conversed with him in the verdant campus of Jawaharlal Nehru Centre for Advanced Scientific Research, Bangalore, about his science and his experiences as science advisor to Prime Ministers.

(Excerpts of this appeared in Prajavani, Business India and Rediff.com)

What or who inspired you to go for science?

I was excited by science even when I was very young. I met Prof. CV Raman while in school. I talked to him and visited his laboratory in 1944-45, almost 70 years ago. I was already in high school at that time since I started school very young. When I finished my BSc I wanted to go for research. The idea of research papers published with people’s names on them, fascinated me. I had never seen such a thing. I asked many teachers about research problems but they were not doing anything exciting in the undergraduate college. They were not encouraging either and said “you are just a BSc student”. That is why I went to BHU.

What about your parents?

They allowed me to do whatever I wanted to do. They never interfered with my plans for studies. There was no pressure to do IAS, engineering etc. unlike today. My father was in the education dept and he trusted my choices.

When I said I want to go to BHU and not study in Bangalore he said fine.

Why did you choose BHU?

BHU had MSc with part course work and part research thesis. Bombay University had MSc by research only. I thought I needed to do some course work along with research. At BHU, I read the book by Linus Pauling, “Nature of the Chemical Bond” where he had talked about electronic structure of molecules. It made me really excited about chemistry.

Why did you choose Chemistry and not Physics?

I was much better in Physics than in Chemistry as an undergraduate. I had 75% average in theory, which was difficult in those days. Especially I liked Physical Chemistry. When I went to US I chose Chemical Physics with Physics as minor and Physical Chemistry as major. Pauling had replied to me that he was not working on molecular structure anymore but one of his students at Purdue was doing it. So I decided to go to Purdue. I got teaching assistantships from MIT and Columbia but I did not understand what TA meant. There was no one to guide me. In 1954 there were very few Indians in the US. I thought what I needed was research assistantship or fellowship. Purdue gave me a research assistantship. However, it turned out that I had to work in the laboratory of a professor who was an organic chemist. The work had nothing to do with my PhD thesis. He was a good person and wanted me to do some spectroscopy and kinetics based on his compounds. This made me learn a lot of spectroscopy and kinetics. I published several papers with him.

Did you do any experimental work there?

Yes of course. I am an experimentalist. I have built a very good lab here now. Today we need not go to MIT or Harvard. It was not always like that. I did my PhD on electron diffraction in gases. I also did some X ray crystallography and all kinds of spectroscopy. It was a very busy period of three years. I published around 20-22 papers by the time I had my PhD. About ten of these were in electron diffraction and about 8 were in spectroscopy. My PhD advisor was a nice man. He knew that I was publishing with other Professors as well, but he did not mind it. I published with 5-6 other professors.

Whenever I heard a problem posed in my class or seminar, I would find out if it had been solved earlier. I would do some work on it and publish it after showing it to the persons concerned. I was helping other students of my advisor since he was busy with administration. If you see the third edition of Pauling’s “Nature of the Chemical Bond”, you will see two of the structures solved by me cited there. I went to Berkley for my Post-Doctoral work and had a wonderful time. I was getting several offers as an Assistant Professor in the US, but I thought if I accepted a faculty offer there, then I may not come back. In India I got offers from a CSIR laboratory, Indian Institute of Science and Punjab University.

Why did you choose to come back to India?

Oh, I belonged to a nationalist family. I used to wear a Khadar cap till my BSc. Even when I was 12-13, I had participated in the independence movement. I decided to come back also to make my parents happy. I joined IISc and worked there for 4 years. Six students got PhDs working with me.

How many PhDs have you produced so far? Tell us a little about your early days in India.

Around 140-150. When I was 26, I wrote my first book on Ultra Violet and Visible Spectroscopy, which has been translated into 5 or 6 languages. Then, another book of mine on Infrared Spectroscopy came out when I had just joined IIT Kanpur. It was all about how to use spectroscopy in Chemistry. I became a Professor in IIT Kanpur when I was not yet 30. That is when Prof. C V Raman wrote to me and asked me to be a member of the science academy of which he was president. IISc did not have any spectrometers and he had allowed me to do some experiments in his laboratory.

All the great names of Indian science, including people like Meghnad Saha and S N Bose, stopped doing research at a relatively young age. Two persons who worked in science till the end were Jagdish Chandra Bose and C V Raman. I admire such people more than those who do one great thing and stop.

IIT Kanpur was wonderful. We perhaps had the best chemistry department in India. In 1976, I left IITK. I almost left India at that time. The level at which I was doing research in Kanpur was not satisfying. There were one or two spectrometers which had to be shared by many people. I had done a lot of research at Oxford using (electron microscopy) and other sophisticated instruments in 1973-1974. I then decided to build a facility second to none in India. At that time Satish Dhawan, who was Director of IISc told me “why do you want to leave India, come back to IISc and build a new Chemistry department from scratch”. I accepted and I built a new solid state and structural chemistry and material research laboratory at IISc. I was able to build reasonable facilities. I got my first electron microscope then.

Eventually, I had the chance to build this centre, which has excellent facilities.

How did Jawaharlal Nehru Center for Advanced Scientific Research (JNCASR) come into being?

A Nehru centenary committee with R Venkataraman at the head had been set up. Some of us suggested that we should have a small centre in Nehru’s name which would do interdisciplinary research. I was then chairman of Science Advisory Council to Rajiv Gandhi at that time. One day, I got a call that this idea had been accepted. People wanted to take it to Pune or UP. I suggested Bangalore. Today, it is one of the best in the India especially after the International Centre for Material Science came up. I had to wait a long time in my life for good facilities for research. Young people cannot complain now that there is no facility in India which is world class in Material Science.

How did you raise funds?

We have raised money from various sources besides the modest sum that we get from the central government. For example a Shaikh from the Emirates gave Rs 15 crores as a grant to do whatever we want to do in science! Unfortunately no Indian industrialist has given like that.

In the evolution of your scientific interests what is the significance of spectroscopy?

Even now I use a lot of spectroscopy but now I am working mainly on the chemistry of advanced materials. I realized long ago that one could not compete with the rest of the world in high resolution spectroscopy etc. So, I chose a subject which would be of global quality but new, and hence, the chemistry of solids. It was a lonely road. Now, of course, I am called the grandfather of the subject. I have worked on various types of research problems in this area.

For a lay person how would you explain what is solid state and materials chemistry as opposed to solid state physics?

We make novel materials with interesting properties, like Graphene for example which is a one atom thick sheet of carbon atoms. Molybdenum sulphide nanosheets have now become a bigger attraction than graphene. I have just written a frontier article on it.

Why are they interesting?

They have novel electronic and magnetic properties. The topic is spreading like wild fire. I had been to Japan recently to deliver a lecture on this.

How did you get interested in transition metal oxides?

There are so many interesting things happening in the oxide area because of the d-electrons. I have written many papers and books on oxides. I still work on oxides.

Was High Temperature Super Conductivity (HTSC) a byproduct of this?

I had already worked on 2-dimensional oxides. Some people had laughed at me at that time. In fact one referee of an American journal wrote, “why is Prof Rao so obsessed with 2-dimensional oxides”. Lo and behold, it was a 2-dimentional copper oxide that showed high temperature superconductivity later! I worked on such oxides in IIT Kanpur and later at IISc Bangalore.

I have also worked on multiferroic oxides, which combine ferroelectric and ferromagnetic properties. Colossal magnetoresistance was found in one of the manganese oxides that I had worked long ago. I had done considerable work on these oxides. I also work on sulphides.

I got into research on fullerenes in 1990. In 1991, within 2 months of the discovery of carbon nanotubes, I had set up a lab here to study them. They can be metallic or semiconducting. Last year I took a US patent on the separation of semiconducting and metallic carbon nanotubes. Graphene and nanotubes have many applications in electronics and other areas. I also work on inorganic nanotubes (e.g. of Boron Nitride, Molybdenum Sulphide). Nanosheets have become a big area. I also work on nanowires and nanoparticles.

Do they exhibit different physics?

Size alone is enough to lead to different properties. For example, we made a major discovery 8 years ago at JNCASR that all nanoparticles are ferromagnetic, no matter of which material! Nanoparticles of even zinc oxide and aluminum oxide with no d-electrons exhibit ferromagnetism.

I have heard that recently you got interested in photosynthesis.

Yes, I have a few young students doing wonderful work here on splitting water and to produce hydrogen by artificial photosynthesis. This is the best way to make hydrogen.

Can you explain it in simple terms?

Plants take water in the air and then using photosystem-2 (where light is absorbed exciting an electron and creating a hole) decompose water to oxygen and photons. Eventually, in photosystem-1 the protons get reduced. Plants do not produce hydrogen but sugars. In our lab, we use the same mechanism to produce hydrogen and we are able to produce quite a lot of it at highly competitive rates, compared to what is going on globally in this field. We use ordinary sunlight (or a 100 W lamp) for this purpose. I use semiconductor nanostructures or nanosheets of simple inorganic materials for splitting water. For example in one experiment, we have used MoS₂ nanosheets. Unlike electrolysis we do not use any electrical energy.

I heard that recently funds have been cut for research at various institutions.

This is not true. What happened last year was that all expenditure was cut by 10% by the previous government. In a small institute like ours, they cut 10 cr in a total budget of 50 cr! Approved funding was cut suddenly and we had already ordered equipment etc. I hope it will be rectified this year by the new government. I keep telling the authorities that for a small institution like this which is producing good work; they should not cut funding even if they cannot increase it.

What has been your experience as chairman of PM’s scientific advisory council?

I have had good experience. I am not a politician and I cannot give speeches about things, but a lot of good things have been done in science by the previous governments. Five IISERs(Indian Institute of Science Education and Research) were started. Similarly, how do you think the Fast Breeder Reactor is going on line, or new rockets are going up with the cryogenic engine? We even got a Rs 5000 crore grant for building a Peta Flop supercomputer. Elections muddied the scene somewhat. Nobody wanted to hear anything positive. Look at Pune ISER. It is the best among the lot and with excellent undergraduate science education.

Have you met the new Prime Minister?

I have met Mr. Modi, our new PM, for half an hour. It was a nice meeting. He asked me to give a note on science and education in the country. I prepared it and sent it to him. I got a nice note from him thanking me. I expect great things to happen under our new PM, Mr. Modi.

I have never wanted to work in the government and become a Secretary to Government or a Rajya Sabha MP. I was offered a Rajya Sabha seat two or three times and I declined. Way back in 1975 when I was in IIT Kanpur, Mrs. Indira Gandhi offered to make me a secretary. When I said ‘No’ she was surprised. I felt that I was too young to be a secretary to Government. I want to do good science, and not become an official.

How was it with VP Singh, P V NarasimhaRao, Vajpayee or Manmohan Singh?

There was no SAC to PM under Mr. Narasimha Rao or the others you mentioned. Under Dr. Manmohan Singh, I was once againChairman SAC and we could do a few important things. I used to meet him once in 6-8 weeks. He often said, “Prof Rao you assume that you have my approval and carry on”. He was shy and decent. He is a real gentleman.

What are your scientific interests now?

Artificial photosynthesis and physics and chemistry based on inorganic nanosheets are two areas. The nanosheets exhibit surprising properties. Then, there are some other new areas that I am working on. Science keeps me going at 80. I feel young.